Curse

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 28, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

SF is way overpowered. Ursan WAS way overpowered (and to some extent STILL IS after the nerf, especially when combined with various consumables). So to revert Ursan would be a terrible way to fix the problem of SF speed clears.

A big part of the problem is that a lot of people find elite areas too hard to play (while others have no problems with guild/alliance groups full of knowledgable and skillful people). This makes it so that average players coming from small/inactive guilds/alliances find it quite hard to ever complete those elite areas. Sure, there are heroes, but we all know that often they don't measure up. In my opinion, this is the real issue which needs to be addressed.

I'm in favor of utterly destroying SF, and further weakening skills like Ursan which are still over powered. Using these skills in elite areas becomes almost necessary to both get in a group and to complete the area in a timely fashion. OPed skills in elite areas is not generally the problem (although SF has certainly become so). The problem, even according to Lindsay, comes when people start using those OPed skills to do everything... such as when people were Vanquishing using Ursan groups, or running everywhere in the game in perma SF. So what I would suggest as a solution is to do something similar in the elite areas as what was done at the end of factions... special overpowered skills that can only be used in the Elite areas. This, or redesign the areas totally making them more achievable for average players. This lets everyone potentially in on the fun of elite areas, and will still encourage pro players to do things as fast as possible (as long as its wihin reason for balance considerations). The skills could be constructed in such a way as to encourage groups of people from many professions or more balanced groups in a similar way the celestial skills were designed (we'd probably want the skills to be somewhat less powerful than celestial skills of course).

Even from a Lore basis, these skills could easily make sense. In DoA, Kormir could teach you a special skill which can only be used in DoA, perhaps for a moderate fee, or after completing a certain quest. Similar ideas could easily work in other elite areas as well. Just my 2 cents.

MuC · Sep 28, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Aragorn

ursan was more brainless than SF is (lol if thats possible) if your honestly gunna tell me that ursan was not OPed u are either in complete denial or you are a fanboy. AoE KD 24/7 massive AoE dmg, huge health and armor buffs, all unstripable and perm maintainable, yay deff not oped.

post below sums it up......

Finaly some smart words from admins. I totally agree with you.

nightcreeper · Sep 28, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Ursan was good for elites areas, is OK, (Elite Area is an AREA where not everyone can go a SURVIVE, it requires, TEAMWORK, PATIENCE, and EXPERIENCE) Ursan made possible any Lab Monkey with less a month playing can go there, and survive, PLEASE. Besides using it for everything else, NM, HM, titles, blablabla, it became a symbiotic bond, now after a year of Ursan Blessing passing still want it back, Give me a break, let Ursan resting in peace in it's grave.

P.S. there are graves for SF and 600s just beside Ursan LOL

FoxBat · Sep 28, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

For all you people bitching that SF never should've been created. Back in Factions there was no deadly paradox, no glyph of swiftness, no consets. There was no way to perma form, and that was what kept it "balanced."

The fair solution is to change it to a form so it returns to its original, unabuseable state. It would still be used in certain farm builds and JQ shrine nuking or whatever.

phan · Sep 28, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Why does it suprise me your original poster is in eF ?

turbo234 · Sep 28, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_UK

whats stopping you from using these "real" builds while people are using sf, is there a new gw's law ive not heard of

you think simply because most people doing uw are farming is using sf thats stopping you getting a team together to use "real" builds, dont be so simple minded

because with how mindless groups have gotten it bored me so i moved on to pvp when i play which is much less mindnumbing than waltzing around rounding up foes and watching them drop to the ground while you don't take a single hit.
and no there isn't a law, but do you realize how hard it is to find a normal group nowadays when all people want to do is clear in <20mins. no thanks

My War · Sep 28, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

If they brought back Ursan, I won't use the skill even if it's on my bar.

no 1 said you had to, so in future, post something thats not pointless.

~ Dan ~ · Sep 28, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killerminds

Leave Ursan as it is and nerf Shadow Form to dust.

This.

I find it funny that people state ursan wasn't OP because they compare it to another OP speedclear which is better.

My War · Sep 28, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

SF is way overpowered. Ursan WAS way overpowered (and to some extent STILL IS after the nerf, especially when combined with various consumables). So to revert Ursan would be a terrible way to fix the problem of SF speed clears.

A big part of the problem is that a lot of people find elite areas too hard to play (while others have no problems with guild/alliance groups full of knowledgable and skillful people). This makes it so that average players coming from small/inactive guilds/alliances find it quite hard to ever complete those elite areas. Sure, there are heroes, but we all know that often the don't measure up. In my opinion, this is the real issue which needs to be addressed.

I'm in favor of utterly destroying SF, further weakening skills like Ursan which are still over powered. Using these skills in elite areas become almost necessary to both get in a group and complete the area in a timely fashion. OPed skills in elite areas is not generally the problem (although SF has certainly become so). The problems, even according to Lindsay, come when people start using those OPed skills to do everything... such as when people where Vanquishing using Ursan groups, or running everywhere in the game in perma SF. So what I woudl suggest as a solution is to do something similar in the elite areas as what was done at the end of factions... special overpowered skills that can only be used in the Elite areas. This, or redesign the areas totally making them more achievable for average players.

For example, from a Lore basis, these skills could easily make sense. In DoA, Kormir could teach you a special skill which can only be used in DoA, perhaps for a moderate fee, or after completing a certain quest. Similar ideas could easily work in other elite areas as well. Just my 2 cents.

dude i give you credit, you broke down what the WHOLE ArenaNet staff needs to learn but i do have to snort at 1 idea....crapping out "ELITE" areas for AVERAGE players....dude the whole idea of an ELITE area is for the more experienced battle hardened players, and i do have to say a 1 nuker Ele, 1 UG Ele, 1 Dominated Mesmer, 1 SS necro, 1 support paragon, 2 monks and a Defy tank=8 total can clear UW just as quick, but then if PUG's(Pick Up Group's) do the common "stay glued to the wars ass" tactic, it makes tanking impossible wich also means a failed group.

so yes i agree skills like Ursan, Shadow Form etc need to be re-stricted to a time frame with an additional 15 seconds of recharge on top after the skills duration has ran out.(i.e shadow form ends, add 15 seconds after before its ready to use again.

my biggest greivance with shadow form is, sins are suppose to come in, Spike and do ish loads of damage(even kill), then get out before the group know's what hit it...cus thats how they have to be played in AB and PvP.(real PvP'ers dont count AB as PvP or some BS)

IMO, ursan was crap for 1 reason, only a war and derv(lesser extent paragons) should tank, not casters/rangers/sins

ursan was good for 1 reason, it gave casters/rangers/sins(before SF) a chance to do HM with there heroes/henchies without having to control from the backline(MIND YOU BACKILINE Hard Mode IS JUST AS EASY AS FRONTLINE)

also, Ursan wasnt as easy as ya'll make it out to be(Ok its easy for us), but did any1 here ever get those brain dead morons who couldnt use ursan if there life depended on it, or the HB monks who couldnt chain Seed of Life and Healing Seed properly or use Heal Party....or the ursans who dont make a wall when yelled at 50 times to make a wall.

and all's i got to say, is im not that technical with builds, and i could use SF, so any brain dead pothead could use it(i smoke pot, plus i have mental disorders)....even players i know that were useless(even at G-Defense/Riposite farming) could do the VSF as an SF.

thats why i like 600 monks, cus there not as easy as SF lemmings...

my 2 cents

Liam_UK · Sep 28, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo234

because with how mindless groups have gotten it bored me so i moved on to pvp when i play which is much less mindnumbing than waltzing around rounding up foes and watching them drop to the ground while you don't take a single hit.
and no there isn't a law, but do you realize how hard it is to find a normal group nowadays when all people want to do is clear in <20mins. no thanks

you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

this is just yet another pointless nerf sf thread even if it started about ursans, people really need to stfu and wait for them to nerf sf insted of bitching bout it

oh yeah.. ursans not op LOL, every class could run ursans, only sins can run perma sf...

My War · Sep 28, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam_UK

you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

this is just yet another pointless nerf sf thread even if it started about ursans, people really need to stfu and wait for them to nerf sf insted of bitching bout it

thats acctually a really good point, but i wanna add something...

this type of bitching is what causes skills to get nerfed to begin with, so you all bitch again later.

Heroes didnt kill PUG's, PUG's killed PUG's...

Liam_UK · Sep 28, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

i farm using sf my self, but personaly perfer to run with guildies using my ranger or nec, sin comes in handy farming ectos or making gold when im low, any other time using it just bores the hell out of me

imo nerf sf its def op, but my god the amount of threads made about it on a daily basis is god dam pointless

chuckles79 · Sep 28, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

First off, Ursans were overpowered. I got into EotN late so I missed the chance to participate but I saw enough first hand to agree that it made elite areas too easy.
I agree with everyone else here about SF though. It's getting to the point where everyone is going to start creating SF sins in order to farm ectos and Obbyshards. Under no circumstances no one should be able to solo farm an Elite area. No way no how. That is the reason that Anet nerfed trapping.
I understand that it's kinda "our bad" apology for the way sins were not wanted in pve for so long.
However making them invincible is not the way to deal with it. Start overpowering their skills in PvE, make their DPS in PvE godlike. However, the simple fact is that I can't remember the last time someone was at ToA lfg for UW and could actually find one if they were not a perma.
The idea that I could create a sin and have 50 ectos in a week is disgusting.

Liam_UK · Sep 28, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

First off, Ursans were overpowered. I got into EotN late so I missed the chance to participate but I saw enough first hand to agree that it made elite areas too easy.
I agree with everyone else here about SF though. It's getting to the point where everyone is going to start creating SF sins in order to farm ectos and Obbyshards. Under no circumstances no one should be able to solo farm an Elite area. No way no how. That is the reason that Anet nerfed trapping.
I understand that it's kinda "our bad" apology for the way sins were not wanted in pve for so long.
However making them invincible is not the way to deal with it. Start overpowering their skills in PvE, make their DPS in PvE godlike. However, the simple fact is that I can't remember the last time someone was at ToA lfg for UW and could actually find one if they were not a perma.
The idea that I could create a sin and have 50 ectos in a week is disgusting.

i was just gonna suggest manlyway, but thats fow...

i wouldnt say sins are god like either, some areas in uw do take a tiny bit of skill... not alot but a very tiny amount lol

noneedforclevernames · Sep 28, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

ursans don't fail 100% of the runs, permas do.

Ghost Dog · Sep 28, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I wondered how long it would take people to ask for easy mode back, not that long.

The Eternal King · Sep 28, 2009, 11:23 PM // 23:23

So you guys want SF to nerfed and then what? Exactly all people who dont have enough time to organize a whole good team with people because there guild aint active enough and want to do UW, they most likely will fail, or never will do it again. SF gives people the oppertunity to still play together, maybe not as teamplay, but still a quick full 8man team. Where some coordination is still needed. I agree SF is (2) good, but cmon Aion came out, just leave us alone Anet....dont nerf all fun out of the game.
(PS: SF=keeps economy going tbh)

Life Bringing · Sep 29, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Eternal King

So you guys want SF to nerfed and then what? Exactly all people who dont have enough time to organize a whole good team with people because there guild aint active enough and want to do UW, they most likely will fail, or never will do it again. SF gives people the oppertunity to still play together, maybe not as teamplay, but still a quick full 8man team. Where some coordination is still needed. I agree SF is (2) good, but cmon Aion came out, just leave us alone Anet....dont nerf all fun out of the game.
(PS: SF=keeps economy going tbh)

Obsidian Flesh.

toocooltang · Sep 29, 2009, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Eternal King

So you guys want SF to nerfed and then what? Exactly all people who dont have enough time to organize a whole good team with people because there guild aint active enough and want to do UW,
(PS: SF=keeps economy going tbh)

UW takes about an hour balanced. Its not that hard, you just have to know what you are doing. SF isn't a time saver. There isn't a single UWSC build that doesn't require PVE skills, and really if you only have r3 or less in each EOTN title rank that slows down your runs alot. So for those truely sub 20 minute runs you need to grind out at least r8 in each EOTN track, of course thats even easier with the speedclear books now too.

The problem with the game is that SF and ursan made the game way to easy, the elite players took advantage of those OP PVE gimmicks and then got tired of running the same elite area's over and over so they quit.

kanuks · Sep 29, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Ursan was overpowered. SF is even more overpowered. Ursan got nerfed. So should SF. Case closed and sorry to all SF users, you guys might have to learn to play the game again! You know the game where health and armor matters?